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	<title>PhilliesMania.com &#187; 800 Pound Gorilla: The List</title>
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		<title>The 800 Pound Gorilla &#8211; The List (Aug 1)</title>
		<link>http://www.philliesmania.com/the-listwhat-does-it-really-mean/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
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				<category><![CDATA[800 Pound Gorilla: The List]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[BEYOND THE STEROIDS and PED's]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[David Ortiz]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Manny Ramirez]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[MEDIA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[MLB]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Perfromance Enhancing Drugs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Raul Ibanez]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[SPORT BLOGS]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[   This was not exactly supposed to be an A-List. Frankly I do not believe it should even be known. But that doesn&#8217;t matter does it? What list? In 2003 when the Union was being stubborn, the League and the Union agreed to an informal across the board test. The agreement was that if a minimum [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.beloblog.com/wfaasports/arod/arod.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.beloblog.com/wfaasports/2009/02/arod-when-will.html&amp;usg=__G5sJsCNm679-yX5H7iPfG3ku1L0=&amp;h=300&amp;w=300&amp;sz=14&amp;hl=en&amp;start=10&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=bdjB9Gme0bYVBM:&amp;tbnh=116&amp;tbnw=116&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3DA-Rod%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1"><img style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid" src="http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:bdjB9Gme0bYVBM:http://www.beloblog.com/wfaasports/arod/arod.jpg" alt="" width="116" height="116" /></a>  <strong><span style="color: #bddece;"> This was not exactly supposed to be an A-List. Frankly I do not believe it should even be known. But that doesn&#8217;t matter does it? </span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;">What list?</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;">In 2003 when the Union was being stubborn, the League and the Union agreed to an informal across the board test. The agreement was that if a minimum of 25% of the players failed the testing having tested for a whole litany of substances that were being examined, then the Union would allow some changes to the MLB testing and discipline program.       <a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/ena0229l.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/l/list_of_names_gifts.asp&amp;usg=__OY_ev3XpK5wLXFFaHY-B-LdpuvY=&amp;h=379&amp;w=400&amp;sz=63&amp;hl=en&amp;start=6&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=9IsWZKVFEjFUmM:&amp;tbnh=117&amp;tbnw=124&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3Da%2Blist%2Bof%2Bnames%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2ADBF_enUS328%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1"><img style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid" src="http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:9IsWZKVFEjFUmM:http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/ena0229l.jpg" alt="" width="124" height="117" /></a></span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;"> The infamous names from the substance test experiement from 2003 have become the list of the 104 players that tested positive for any number of controversial substances from pre-cursors to the real McCoy. Yes we all recall the report and subsequent A-Rod book released by Selena Roberts and David Epstein. And while many, and probably most, in and around the media and a percentage of the public will laud these 2 for this &#8220;expose&#8217;&#8221; I think it was unethical and inappropriate. I also find it meaningless and counter productive.</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;"><a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://notqualifiedtocomment.com/wp-content/uploads/sammy-sosa-c10107736.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://notqualifiedtocomment.com/2009/06/say-it-aint-so-sammy.html&amp;usg=__QExuPeDQ8748sSkTkO1siO2WNB8=&amp;h=478&amp;w=383&amp;sz=31&amp;hl=en&amp;start=15&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=NiJulHTlFUk4GM:&amp;tbnh=129&amp;tbnw=103&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3DSosa%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2ADBF_enUS328%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1"><img style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid" src="http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:NiJulHTlFUk4GM:http://notqualifiedtocomment.com/wp-content/uploads/sammy-sosa-c10107736.jpg" alt="" width="103" height="129" /></a> </span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;">Sure I understand the fans frustration and the public desire to shame and embarrass these players into going clean. And there is really no excuse for drug abuse. BUT THE PUBLIC EMBARRASSMENT OF A FEW STARS IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING ! Not to mention there is always a cloud of suspicion left with unanswered questions.      <a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://withmalice.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/mcgwire.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://withmalice.wordpress.com/2008/01/&amp;usg=__eiQIZfowXHp55EmwZiCwSvGZgyw=&amp;h=367&amp;w=300&amp;sz=22&amp;hl=en&amp;start=6&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=NXF1s-RloiEHhM:&amp;tbnh=122&amp;tbnw=100&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmcgwire%2Bsteroids%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2ADBF_enUS328%26um%3D1"><img style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid" src="http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:NXF1s-RloiEHhM:http://withmalice.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/mcgwire.jpg" alt="" width="100" height="122" /></a></span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;">And I except the industry of the media and the desire of Roberts and Epstein to make a mark in journalism, and the goal of making some cash. But guess what? Concerning journalism, this is sports,  this is not Watergate. And even Woodward and Bernstein were over credited. Yes they were great writers and followed a path and an historic story. But the thing is they had the key components of the story squealed to them by a voice in a parking garage. That does not require top notch journalism. You had a leak for crying out loud! &#8220;Deep Throat&#8221; should have won the Pulitzer along with the famous Washington Post duo.</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;">Don&#8217;t believe me? Okay this is like an archaeologist searching for some precious find and determining where it may be and then upon getting in the vicinity of the dig a gentleman pulls up beside them and hands them a rare artifact and says &#8220;is this what you&#8217;re looking for?&#8221; Come on sometimes events in life are being in the right place at the right time. Often times that is part of reporting. That is nothing to sound the horns about or take credit for. <a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://obscuresportsquarterly.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/davidortiz.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://baseballbetting.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/did-i-speak-too-soon/&amp;usg=__LxcxEMUgQ5e7MS-_PuLSi8GFW84=&amp;h=495&amp;w=490&amp;sz=75&amp;hl=en&amp;start=1&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=vORucYaK5qWzuM:&amp;tbnh=130&amp;tbnw=129&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3DBig%2BPapi%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1"><img style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid" src="http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:vORucYaK5qWzuM:http://obscuresportsquarterly.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/davidortiz.jpg" alt="" width="129" height="130" /></a> <a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/MannyRamirez.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/2009/03/&amp;usg=__MBoPgZLpatP-P3hjFWbb3jPTy78=&amp;h=389&amp;w=381&amp;sz=19&amp;hl=en&amp;start=2&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=hOURLVUnAp3DcM:&amp;tbnh=123&amp;tbnw=120&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3DManny%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2ADBF_enUS328%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1"><img style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid" src="http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:hOURLVUnAp3DcM:http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/MannyRamirez.jpg" alt="" width="120" height="123" /></a><a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://obscuresportsquarterly.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/davidortiz.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://baseballbetting.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/did-i-speak-too-soon/&amp;usg=__LxcxEMUgQ5e7MS-_PuLSi8GFW84=&amp;h=495&amp;w=490&amp;sz=75&amp;hl=en&amp;start=1&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=vORucYaK5qWzuM:&amp;tbnh=130&amp;tbnw=129&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3DBig%2BPapi%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1"></a></span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;">So it is with Roberts and Epstein. The book about Rodriguez may be a great book and well written, but no one cared until the nugget of his being on the infamous list appeared in the media. Oh and Roberts and Epstein made sure to promote this nugget. Wow! Nice <em>digging</em> kids. They did not discover this list or the names on it! A-Rod&#8217;s name was handed to them on a silver platter. They had a weasel or weasels break a legally binding agreement by making any names on this list available. That is just wrong if you are being brutally honest.  </span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;">Doesn&#8217;t anyone have any moral standards? And then you have the question of why just A-Rod in this case? Well that is obvious. These 2 reporters were not really interested in the good of baseball they were hawking a book about Rodriguez! And the person or people that leak this stuff? Maybe they receive money for all we know. They got something out of it, maybe some sort of revenge against A-Rod? They were Red Sox fans? Does it matter why in this case?</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;">The fact is as Donald Fehr has been quoted as saying recently, the releasing of these names  &#8221;is a crime&#8221;. Which is more than the Union has said before. Of course saying this and doing something are not exactly the same. Bud Selig should be singing the same tune quite frankly. As I have said before baseball has the power to push this issue of Court sealed protection. </span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;"><a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/5495844/2/istockphoto_5495844-prisoner-behind-bars.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/concepts-and-ideas/failure/5495844-prisoner-behind-bars.php%3Fid%3D5495844&amp;usg=__420BYCMp4gy1M9uyg8iTEg8bcOk=&amp;h=322&amp;w=380&amp;sz=41&amp;hl=en&amp;start=4&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=6aFB2PWuF_BLNM:&amp;tbnh=104&amp;tbnw=123&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbehind%2Bbars%2Bcartoons%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2ADBF_enUS328%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1"><img style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid" src="http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:6aFB2PWuF_BLNM:http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/5495844/2/istockphoto_5495844-prisoner-behind-bars.jpg" alt="" width="123" height="104" /></a></span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;">And now it seems someone decided that other names will leak out. WHY?  Somebody is getting something. I tell you what you&#8217;re not getting. THAT IS THE TRUTH! This is not the way to expose people to resolve an issue.</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #bddece;">The fact is the Union and the players missed that boat a million times. The clean players, and they know who they are should have had their own testing done. And I mean everything from hair to blood. Anything that would prove they are absolutely clean. Obviously the dirty players, and they know who they are, would not subject themselves to that. And the burden of proof would incite the truth to come to the surface.</span></strong></p>
<p><a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9909/01/brainy.mice/story.smart.mouse.gif&amp;imgrefurl=http://stanford.wellsphere.com/bioethics-article/will-genetic-engineering-ruin-sports/420878&amp;usg=__VUvSqGw7oTPv8Wc6X7G22QtCP2o=&amp;h=168&amp;w=220&amp;sz=7&amp;hl=en&amp;start=18&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=yT76FegziwFRGM:&amp;tbnh=82&amp;tbnw=107&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3DSTeroid%2Btaker%2Blist%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2ADBF_enUS328%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1"><img style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid" src="http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:yT76FegziwFRGM:http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9909/01/brainy.mice/story.smart.mouse.gif" alt="" width="107" height="82" /></a></p>
<p><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>The list doesn&#8217;t even prove or disprove anything relating to steroids or HGH. You could have failed that 2003 test for Andro. Which is not a steroid and was not a banned substance from MLB in 2003! So testing positive is not the same as failing a test in some cases like this one.  So this amounts to a witch hunt and a public rush to judgement under the present innuendo and presumptions. And I am disgusted with the misinformation that is blindly excepted.</strong></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>And I do not want to defend the users either. But this is not exposing them either. &#8221; But if they admit it&#8221; you say &#8220;then we will know for sure&#8221;.</strong></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>Know what for sure? The media and the fans use Jason Giambi for example. Guess what? He never said he used <em>steroids</em>. He apologized for taking &#8220;stuff&#8221;. What does that mean as far as facts go?</strong></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>And what exactly did A-Rod own up to? You think that was the whole story? Did he even use the word steroid when referring to his story? </strong></span></p>
<p style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0.2in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in"><em><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>&#8220;As I discussed with Peter Gammons, in the years 2001, &#8217;02 and &#8217;03, I experimented with <span style="color: #ffff00;">a banned substance</span> that eventually triggered a positive test.</strong></span></em></p>
<p><a name="article_body_text"></a><em><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>&#8220;Going back to 2001, my cousin started telling me about <span style="color: #ffff00;">a substance</span> that you could purchased over the counter in the DR [Dominican Republic]. In the streets, it&#8217;s <span style="color: #ffff00;">known as &#8216;boli&#8217; or &#8216;bole.&#8221;</span>  </strong></span></em></p>
<p><a name="article_body_text1"></a><em><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>&#8220;I stopped taking <span style="color: #ffff00;">it</span> &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. </strong></span></em></p>
<p style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0.2in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in"><em><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>&#8220;<span style="color: #ffff00;">I didn&#8217;t think they were steroids</span> at the time. Again, that&#8217;s part of being young and stupid. It was over the counter, it was pretty basic and it was really amateur hour&#8221;</strong></span></em></p>
<p><a name="article_body_text"></a><em><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>&#8220;We probably didn&#8217;t even take it right&#8221;</strong></span></em></p>
<p><a name="article_body_text2"></a><em><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>&#8220;I hope to join Don Hooton, who has done some incredible things, who&#8217;s sitting right over here. <span style="color: #ffff00;">His son passed away because of steroid abuse.&#8221;</span></strong></span></em></p>
<p><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>Read all of the transcripts and you&#8217;ll see what he admitted and what he didn&#8217;t admit. But again people just say &#8220;well he apologized&#8221;. Oh yes he said the words I apologize, but for what did he apologize? Substance and it?     <a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/glitters/s/sorry-2708.gif&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.graphicshunt.com/search/1/sorry.htm&amp;usg=__SBGD8r650v3HDLbYPKJe-mU887E=&amp;h=298&amp;w=288&amp;sz=74&amp;hl=en&amp;start=16&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=j9Lpr8LOGPK9QM:&amp;tbnh=116&amp;tbnw=112&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsorry%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2ADBF_enUS328%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1"><img style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid" src="http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:j9Lpr8LOGPK9QM:http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/glitters/s/sorry-2708.gif" alt="" width="112" height="116" /></a></strong></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>The worst part for me right now is how little people care about the law being broken. Freedom of the press does not cover over revealing  Judicially sealed Documents. A Judge should have the balls to sit these reporters in a cell until they expose the criminal!</strong></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>Think about that. A reporter will gladly rat out a baseball player for testing positive to a drug test, without knowing what the drug was. And assuming that he  is cheating they will treat it like a crime against humanity. &#8220;Fans should know, fans want to know! Integrity of the game&#8221; they say. Yeah but what are you really telling us? The media doesn&#8217;t get to the bottom they just feed the doubt and suspicion by reporting in this fashion. </strong></span></p>
<p><a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://prettysideofpain.ketnar.org/TS_misc_reporters.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://prettysideofpain.ketnar.org/tsgoodies.html&amp;usg=__cotHBIjqhceoQ3J2Cwi-sorext4=&amp;h=472&amp;w=704&amp;sz=40&amp;hl=en&amp;start=9&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=temGbPGC6CcrIM:&amp;tbnh=94&amp;tbnw=140&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3Dreporters%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2ADBF_enUS328%26um%3D1"><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong><img style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid" src="http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:temGbPGC6CcrIM:http://prettysideofpain.ketnar.org/TS_misc_reporters.jpg" alt="" width="140" height="94" /></strong></span></a></p>
<p><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>What you are reporting in essence that maybe this person did this or it looks like this person did this. That isn&#8217;t what we want to know or at least I hope it isn&#8217;t what fans want to know. I want the truth. And where are the reports trying to quantify how this translates into HR&#8217;s and how many? </strong></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>And yet when faced with the ethical responsibility of exposing or ratting out a criminal, they shut up. Let me tell you I want to know who is leaking this stuff. That is real news! The person or persons who is giving the media the names is breaking a federal law! </strong></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #bddece;"><strong>This will never go away. Even if you do as some suggest and want. And that is just reveal all the names at once. What? While I understand the reasoning the fact is we should never condone an illegal act like that! We all including every player, every team, and th Judicial System should stand up and say no we have gone to far with this support of law breakers. </strong></span></p>
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